Support road.cc

Like this site? Help us to make it better.

TfL rebuffs cyclist over safety fears about red light jumping drivers at Bow Roundabout

Luke Redpath raises concerns at notorious blackspot - but told nothing can be done with no collisions recorded

Transport for London (TfL) has been urged by a cyclist to take action against red light jumping motorists at the notorious Bow Roundabout before someone is injured or killed – but he has been told that no action can be taken because there is no history there of collisions being caused by drivers ignoring traffic signals within the past three years.

Luke Redpath, aged 31, lives in Dagenham and often cycles into London to visit clients. He told road.cc that his usual route takes him to and from Liverpool Street, riding partly on Barclays Cycle Superhighway CS2. He told us: “I try to avoid Bow Roundabout on the way home but if I’m cycling into London it’s hard to avoid it.”

Following the deaths of Brian Dorling and Svitlana Tereschenko at Bow in autumn 2011, TfL installed early-start cyclist specific traffic lights at the junction to enable people on bikes to get ahead of traffic.

However, Mr Redpath says that motorists jumping red lights are putting cyclist’s lives at risk. He told us: “On several occasions I’ve witnessed dangerous red light jumping [RLJ] at Bow Roundabout and it appears to be both common and blatant. TfL seem unwilling to do anything about this issue until somebody gets hurt.

Safety changes suggested to TfL

“I first contacted TfL about this several weeks ago after coming close to being hit by two RLJers on a commute to work – if I had set off quickly when my light went green I would have been hit by a van who went through red after several seconds.”

He continued: “I asked TfL what they could do about this and suggested the possibility of installing red light cameras and/or changing the phasing of the lights – currently the cyclist light turns green as soon as the motor traffic light turns red.

“I also suggested improved signage telling motorists on the roundabout to look out for cyclists – I suspect that traffic speeding up to enter the A12 sees the motor traffic held back at a red light and decides to take a chance, having not seen any cyclists waiting at the new advanced stop lines.”

In his email to TfL, sent on 10 September, he wrote: “I seriously urge you to take measures to reduce red light jumping at all the lights at the roundabout but particularly those on the roundabout itself,” and suggested installing red light cameras, changing the phasing of the lights, and putting up signs warning both motorists and cyclists of the potential danger.

He added: “In an ideal world none of these things should be necessary but there are a lot of bad, dangerous drivers out there.”

The reply from a customer service advisor at TfL made it clear that while his concerns were noted, no action could be taken.

TfL outlines red light camera criteria

TfL told Mr Redpath: “There is a London wide policy to only install red light cameras as mitigation for a history of people being Killed or Seriously Injured (KSI) as a result of red light trespass. Criteria are used to assess whether the installation of a camera would be justified so that the camera would help improve safety by reducing the number of red light trespass related KSIs.

“The criteria for the implementation of a red light camera is that there must have been a minimum of two injury collisions on the same arm of a junction (in a three year period) that resulted in one KSI and both of these must have been as a result of a red light trespass.

“According to Transport for London (TfL) records, none of the collisions at Bow Roundabout have been as a result of red light trespass. Therefore, as there has been no red light trespass related KSIs at this location it is doubtful that the introduction of a red light camera would be effective in addressing the collision problem and so would not be considered in this instance.”

Lorry going through red light was factor in Brian Dorling's death

It’s not clear how TfL compiles those records, but certainly in the case of Mr Dorling, who died on 24 October 2011, a lorry going through a red light was a factor according to Poplar coroner Mary Hassell at the inquest last year into his death.

She concluded that while the victim, an experienced cyclist who commuted daily across London to his work as a surveyor at the Olympic Park then under construction, had gone through a red light, so too had the driver of the lorry involved in the collision.

Martin Porter QC, who represented the Dorling family at the inquest, suggested that he had ridden through the light to get away from the lorry.

The same coroner warned cyclists not to ride through red lights after concluding following an inquest into the death in November last year of Venera Minakhmetova that she had ridden through a red light, something her family contested, saying she was always extremely careful at the junction.

At such a busy junction – and moreover, one where a number of videos showing drivers jumping red lights have been posted online, some collected in this YouTube play list by Mr Redpath, some may find it hard to believe that during the past three years there has been no recorded instance of another collision involving a motor vehicle jumping a red light to fulfil TfL’s criteria.

Equally, many might find it difficult to understand why, at a location where three cyclists have died within the past three years, TfL cannot be flexible on its policy, and why it may take another collision – with someone possibly being seriously injured or killed – for action to be taken.

TfL says take it up with the Met

TfL’s email to Mr Redpath directed him to the Metropolitan Police’s Road Safe London website, where people can notify officers of examples of poor driving, and he was also assured that “whilst there have been improvements made at Bow roundabout the process to improve the area for cyclists has not finished.

“We are currently working with the London Boroughs of Tower Hamlets and Newham, and other key stakeholders, to deliver the Vision for Bow: a place which all road users passing through find accessible, safe and connected.

“We are therefore looking at opportunities to deliver more substantial changes at Bow for pedestrian and cyclists in the longer term, in order to support the regeneration of the area.”

Mr Redpath, who says he will continue his campaign, told us: “It appears that they [TfL] are unwilling to contemplate the idea of red light cameras, essentially because nobody has been hurt as a result of red light jumping (yet).

“Given how notorious Bow Roundabout is for being a dangerous junction for cyclists and pedestrians, this seems like an unbelievable excuse for not trying to further improve safety at the junction,” he added.‏

We have raised a number of points with TfL arising from this exchange of correspondence, and will let you know their response as soon as we hear back from them.

Simon joined road.cc as news editor in 2009 and is now the site’s community editor, acting as a link between the team producing the content and our readers. A law and languages graduate, published translator and former retail analyst, he has reported on issues as diverse as cycling-related court cases, anti-doping investigations, the latest developments in the bike industry and the sport’s biggest races. Now back in London full-time after 15 years living in Oxford and Cambridge, he loves cycling along the Thames but misses having his former riding buddy, Elodie the miniature schnauzer, in the basket in front of him.

Add new comment

38 comments

Avatar
kitsunegari | 9 years ago
0 likes

This is nothing but culpable negligence (as already mentioned) on the part of TFL.

The real tragedy being that somebody's husband/wife/father/mother/son/daughter/boyfriend/girlfriend/lover/maker of tea will get killed before anything is done about it.

Avatar
Scoob_84 | 9 years ago
0 likes

So the only RLJing of motorist i'm reading here are the ones who go through as the light turns red; exploiting the 2 or 3 second gap when all lights at the junction are red, used for clearing traffic before another stream of traffic is allowed through. All forms of traffic are guilty of this (including evangelic cyclists who stop at all reds), but its a very low risk as nobody else is on a green.

I don't think this is the same as a cyclist (well a person on a bike) who approaches a red light that's been red for a while and passes through when pedestrians are crossing or another stream of traffic is passing through, using only their own judgement to determine whether its safe to do so or not. Even if they pass through without incident, they stress out other road users no end and makes a farce of the highway code.

Avatar
felixcat replied to Scoob_84 | 9 years ago
0 likes
Scoob_84 wrote:

So the only RLJing of motorist i'm reading here are the ones who go through as the light turns red; exploiting the 2 or 3 second gap when all lights at the junction are red, used for clearing traffic before another stream of traffic is allowed through. All forms of traffic are guilty of this (including evangelic cyclists who stop at all reds), but its a very low risk as nobody else is on a green.

I don't think this is the same as a cyclist (well a person on a bike) who approaches a red light that's been red for a while and passes through when pedestrians are crossing or another stream of traffic is passing through, using only their own judgement to determine whether its safe to do so or not. Even if they pass through without incident, they stress out other road users no end and makes a farce of the highway code.

Motorist RLJers include those who accelerate on amber. Amber means stop, just as much as red does, unless it is dangerous (usually due to another impatient driver too close behind).
As someone comments above, it is unwise to start too promptly when your light goes green, lest you are hit by the amber gamblers.
This illegal behaviour also makes it necessary for the gap between the light phases to be even longer, for the same reason. This in turn increases impatience and enourages even more amber gambling. It also decreases the throughput or capacity of the road system.

A motorist accelerating through a red is rather more dangerous to others than a cyclist who, for his own self preservation, rides carefully through an established red.
If you are stopping for an amber/red on your bike the sound of an aggressively driven car behind is rather intimidating.

Avatar
FluffyKittenofT... replied to Scoob_84 | 9 years ago
0 likes
Scoob_84 wrote:

So the only RLJing of motorist i'm reading here are the ones who go through as the light turns red; exploiting the 2 or 3 second gap when all lights at the junction are red, used for clearing traffic before another stream of traffic is allowed through. All forms of traffic are guilty of this (including evangelic cyclists who stop at all reds), but its a very low risk as nobody else is on a green.

I don't think this is the same as a cyclist (well a person on a bike) who approaches a red light that's been red for a while and passes through when pedestrians are crossing or another stream of traffic is passing through, using only their own judgement to determine whether its safe to do so or not. Even if they pass through without incident, they stress out other road users no end and makes a farce of the highway code.

Except that gap isn't as long as you think it is. Sometimes (particularly at one major junction I know of) the drivers doing that consume the entirety of the pedestrian phase. Besides, this is just special-pleading 'my breaking the highway code isn't as bad as that other lot doing it'. Doesn't wash.

Avatar
jacknorell replied to Scoob_84 | 9 years ago
0 likes
Scoob_84 wrote:

So the only RLJing of motorist i'm reading here are the ones who go through as the light turns red; exploiting the 2 or 3 second gap when all lights at the junction are red, used for clearing traffic before another stream of traffic is allowed through. All forms of traffic are guilty of this (including evangelic cyclists who stop at all reds), but its a very low risk as nobody else is on a green.

Bullsh*t! Many intersections do the green phase immediately after the red on crossing traffic. I have several that I go through daily, and drivers jumping those lights consistently, meaning I take another few seconds to move off to stay safe rather than splat.

Avatar
hampstead_bandit | 9 years ago
0 likes

well I certainly got hurt when I was run over by the road cyclist I mentioned outside Camden tube station, the green pedestrian crossing was lit, meaning the traffic light was also red to oncoming traffic.

I was knocked to the ground and bruised / grazed my right arm and back where I fell, and bruised my jaw on his handlebar

He nearly crashed, but managed to recover and sprinted away before anyone could stop him.

If i was an older person in less robust condition, I could have easily broken a bone / hip or worse.

There were 2 "real" Police standing about 20 foot away and they said they did not see anything....hmmm

Avatar
ironmancole replied to hampstead_bandit | 9 years ago
0 likes
hampstead_bandit wrote:

well I certainly got hurt when I was run over by the road cyclist I mentioned outside Camden tube station, the green pedestrian crossing was lit, meaning the traffic light was also red to oncoming traffic.

I was knocked to the ground and bruised / grazed my right arm and back where I fell, and bruised my jaw on his handlebar

He nearly crashed, but managed to recover and sprinted away before anyone could stop him.

If i was an older person in less robust condition, I could have easily broken a bone / hip or worse.

There were 2 "real" Police standing about 20 foot away and they said they did not see anything....hmmm

The individual doing that certainly was a moron and yes they should be hung out for it. However, I would take being hit by a cyclist jumping a red light over a car every day of the week.

I fail to see, and would welcome constructive feedback on this, why 'motorists' feel such offences are identical to 'cyclist' offences when it comes to RLJ.

It's like comparing someone stealing a kiss to a rapist attack, the levels of injury and potential for harm are just not on the same level and for all the arguments out there the statistics show its those in cars that do the killing and the maiming. No one should jump lights, but when it happens and it goes wrong I know what I'd sooner be hit by.

I can talk with immediate knowledge on this. The roads have taken my five year old sister, (speeding lorry driver who ploughed into the side of the car she was in leaving her to die at the side of the road waiting for an air ambulance) and myself when hit by a motorist on the wrong side of the road (lost place with British Cycling at a centre of excellence and three years cognitive rehabilitation for a brain injury).

So, in the real world, for all of the moaning about cyclists why the hell are people so great at ignoring the fact that it's motorists and their selfish ways that actually need addressing as a priority?

Avatar
Scoob_84 | 9 years ago
0 likes

Are people really arguing that more motorists RLJ than cyclists?

Avatar
mrmo replied to Scoob_84 | 9 years ago
0 likes
Scoob_84 wrote:

Are people really arguing that more motorists RLJ than cyclists?

I guess it depends where you live, but I see far more cars jumping reds than cyclists.

Three junctions I can guarantee to see cars RL jumping on the way home, GE traffic lights Bishops Cleeve, Poole Way/Swindon Road Cheltenham, Tewkesbury Road/Gloucester Road Cheltenham. As for cyclists jumping lights it happens, but no where near as guaranteed, a lot probably comes down to cyclists being on the pavements rather than the road.

Avatar
EddyBerckx | 9 years ago
0 likes

I see a huge amount of red light jumping (and over the speed limit amber gambling -which is also classed as RLJing) by vans/hgvs/cabs/coaches and cars in London on my commute.

Yes cyclists (almost always slow moving casuals) red light jump, but at a much slower speed and normally at an empty ped crossing light. Don't agree with them doing it but they cause zero danger in comparison to the motorised vehicles.

As for the PSCO muppets...corrupt to the core, it's disgusting what they let go in order to take the easy cyclist bashing option. Scum the lot of them.

Avatar
Scoob_84 replied to EddyBerckx | 9 years ago
0 likes
StoopidUserName wrote:

Yes cyclists (almost always slow moving casuals) red light jump, but at a much slower speed and normally at an empty ped crossing light. Don't agree with them doing it but they cause zero danger in comparison to the motorised vehicles.

Zero danger? Tell that to the pedestrians having to jump out of the day when either crossing with a green man or a zebra crossing.

Avatar
EddyBerckx replied to Scoob_84 | 9 years ago
0 likes
Scoob_84 wrote:
StoopidUserName wrote:

Yes cyclists (almost always slow moving casuals) red light jump, but at a much slower speed and normally at an empty ped crossing light. Don't agree with them doing it but they cause zero danger in comparison to the motorised vehicles.

Zero danger? Tell that to the pedestrians having to jump out of the day when either crossing with a green man or a zebra crossing.

Maybe you could learn to read? Or did you just ignore the empty ped crossings but to make a point?

Don't you just love comment threads!!!

I genuinely see vastly more danger to peds each day from fast moving vehicles than I do from cyclists - try walking round angel any lunchtime to see what I mean - peds are the lowest of the low and must be prevented from crossing the road to spend money AT ALL COSTS don't you know  3

And I'm not defending idiot muppet RLJ'ers either.

Avatar
hampstead_bandit | 9 years ago
0 likes

@arfa

agree. Recently at Aldgate I saw 2 PSCO standing on pavement waiting to cross whilst lorry drove through green pedestrian light of their crossing after RLJ, causing several pedestrians to step back on pavement

I was gobsmacked at their lack of action. What is the point of employing them if they are derelict in their duty?

Avatar
jacknorell replied to hampstead_bandit | 9 years ago
0 likes
hampstead_bandit wrote:

@arfa

agree. Recently at Aldgate I saw 2 PSCO standing on pavement waiting to cross whilst lorry drove through green pedestrian light of their crossing after RLJ, causing several pedestrians to step back on pavement

I was gobsmacked at their lack of action. What is the point of employing them if they are derelict in their duty?

There's absolutely no point to PCSOs. Except to be able to say there are more officers employed than reality provides... they're useless in every way. I'd rather have a slightly lower number of real police officers.

Avatar
arfa | 9 years ago
0 likes

I have no issue with RLJ getting fined whatever the choice of vehicle. What I do have a problem with is the blitzes on cyclists and the PCSO looking the other way when a car is involved.
During one of their blitzes earlier in the year outside Southwark tube, I witnessed a right hooking incident where a car ignored a lawful oncoming cyclist and the accident was purely avoided by the skill of the cyclist braking and swerving to avoid the vehicle. The PCSO's reaction ? He just looked down at the ground and pretended it had not happened.
So until a tonne of steel is treatment as seriously as it should be when it breaks the law, forgive me if I am a little indifferent to false flag safety initiatives

Avatar
hampstead_bandit | 9 years ago
0 likes

@Nzlucas

Every day I commute across London and I see first hand cyclists, private motor vehicles, taxis both black cab and minicab, heavy goods vehicles, public transport buses, even emergency services (ambulance and Police) blatantly driving through red lights and 'red light gambling' as the lights change to red.

The most frightening are the buses and HGV simply because of their size, and that their drivers seem completely oblivious to their surroundings, especially when the pedestrian lights have changed to green and the driver is still going through that junction!

Seen this happen right next to PCSO and Police standing on the junction and they have done nothing about this (Police have been doing regular junction duty in London the past months)

If I had to put a number or ratio to what I see every day, it would be the cyclists doing more RLJ simply because they are more mobile and get to the front of the traffic

Whereas motor traffic is moving slowly meaning only the front (1) vehicle will RLJ, whilst I will see numbers of cyclists RLJ at a single junction.

The worst offenders are the guys on expensive road bikes who don't even slow down, I have seen too many near misses as they ride through pedestrians and actual collisions with pedestrians who are legitimately using a green crossing.

I was run over and knocked to the floor in Camden by a road cyclist RLJ by the tube station last year.

Earlier in the comments someone mentioned the phrase "RTA" (Road traffic accident); this was altered several years ago to "RTC" (Road traffic collision) because its not an 'accident' but the result of negligence or other circumstances (i.e. mechanical failure)

Avatar
Crankpoet replied to hampstead_bandit | 9 years ago
0 likes

This is the most reasonable comment ( @hampstead_bandit) I've read on here for a long time. I live less than 400 metres from Bow Roundabout but try to avoid it when at all possible - red light jumpers are common there and you have to be super vigilant and not push it when it goes amber - Russian roulette! Many cyclists do not help matters by ignoring red lights and it is particularly bad on CS2

Avatar
HarrogateSpa | 9 years ago
0 likes

North Yorkshire also uses these criteria - they refuse to consider reducing the speed limit on a country road which is narrow, with a poor surface, and which is blatantly not suitable for 60mph (+), because not enough people have been killed or seriously injured there.

While there's some sort of logic to it, I don't feel that it's the right basis for making decisions. If lots of people were being killed somewhere, then yes, definitely go and change things. But don't make this the only reason for intervening. If you can see that a place is dangerous, or it's pointed out to you and you agree, don't fail to act just because no one has been killed yet.

As a related point, we know from a number of surveys that over 50% of British people are put off from cycling because they think the roads are too dangerous. If local authorities refuse to change anything unless people are killed on the roads, they are never going to make the roads feel safe enough for the majority of people who don't ride on them.

Avatar
gmac101 | 9 years ago
0 likes

This is part of a long standing TFL policy on providing road safety infrastructure. Close to where I live a young girl was nearly killed when she was struck by a car. TFL refused to fund any improvements as the road hadn't hit the KSI "target". You could view these KSI's as sacrificial victims who give their lives and health for the safety of us all.
I think that many other local authorities use similar methods to distribute their admittedly limited road improvements.
Changing this so that all LA's collected near miss data and used it determine the funding of safety improvements would, I think, go someway to reducing accidents and the fear of accidents.

Avatar
ChairRDRF | 9 years ago
0 likes

The issue of traffic policing in London and support for walking and cycling will be raised at this conference on November 1st:
http://rdrf.org.uk/2014/09/22/conference-on-road-danger-reduction-and-en...

Don't forget to register if you are interested in attending

Avatar
ChairRDRF | 9 years ago
0 likes

This is basically the usual "road safety" nonsense of measuring danger in an utterly inadequate way: see
http://rdrf.org.uk/2013/11/15/if-we-want-safer-roads-for-cycling-we-have...
for better ways of measuring danger for cyclists in particular.

Avatar
Initialised | 9 years ago
0 likes

Simple, cheap fix, put a camera on every traffic light in the country, RLJing by motor vehicles eliminated pretty much overnight.

Avatar
miro_o replied to Initialised | 9 years ago
0 likes
Initialised wrote:

Simple, cheap fix, put a camera on every traffic light in the country, RLJing by motor vehicles eliminated pretty much overnight.

With some software able to spot offences... that could happen.

Avatar
Paul_C replied to miro_o | 9 years ago
0 likes
miro_o wrote:
Initialised wrote:

Simple, cheap fix, put a camera on every traffic light in the country, RLJing by motor vehicles eliminated pretty much overnight.

With some software able to spot offences... that could happen.

On post radars are now getting to be very capable in tracking vehicles in multiple lanes and in conjunction with high quality CCTV cameras would be able to track offenders through junctions and picking up yellow box and red light jumping and speeding on green (accelerating to try and beat the red).

So capable that you would only require humans in the loop to go over incidents flagged up with a view to prosecution...

PS. the only traffic lights that are generally obeyed in Gloucester are precisely those with cameras on them... similarly, the only speed limits that are obeyed are those with average speed cameras enforcing them. Here is the entrance to a notorious rat-run in Gloucester which has now been tamed:

http://goo.gl/maps/sWflz

Avatar
denzzz28 | 9 years ago
0 likes

This is a bit hypocritical. if you compare both cars and cyclist jumping red lights, the cyclist will out number the cars 10 folds. not a single day when I cycle to work that I dont see a cyclist jumping red lights. some cars do jump them but its rare. some cyclist even go through red lights like its green. they dont even slow down.

Im sorry mr Luke Redpath, but you need to first educate cyclist not to jump red lights before you start yapping at motorist. cyclist are also putting their lives at risk when they dont follow the highway code.

Avatar
MaxP replied to denzzz28 | 9 years ago
0 likes
denzzz28 wrote:

This is a bit hypocritical. if you compare both cars and cyclist jumping red lights, the cyclist will out number the cars 10 folds. not a single day when I cycle to work that I dont see a cyclist jumping red lights. some cars do jump them but its rare. some cyclist even go through red lights like its green. they dont even slow down.

Im sorry mr Luke Redpath, but you need to first educate cyclist not to jump red lights before you start yapping at motorist. cyclist are also putting their lives at risk when they dont follow the highway code.

Really!

Amber means nothing where I am and red means 'Go faster'

People experience different things depending on time and location.

You can't class all cyclist in the same group as RLJ, just as you can't class all car drivers as RLJ. It's just a case of who is the most lethal and in the event of a RTA, how good the police are at working out what happened and who is to blame.

Avatar
Tiffin15 replied to denzzz28 | 9 years ago
0 likes

One rule observe red lights then no confusion.

Avatar
seven replied to denzzz28 | 9 years ago
0 likes
denzzz28 wrote:

This is a bit hypocritical.

How in any universe is it hypocritical? Have you witnessed Mr Redpath RLJing? If not, why are you calling him a hypocrite?

Your comment is the worst kind of tu quoque nonsense from a cyclist I've seen on this subject in a long time. Not only is your reasoning fallacious, but the premise and 'evidence' you've based it on - i.e. you think more cyclists RLJ than drivers because you personally see lots of cyclists RLJing - is not worth a sook.

Avatar
Nzlucas replied to denzzz28 | 9 years ago
0 likes

I think you will find that motorists jump more red lights than cyclists and overall are more unlawful in a strict sense (speeding, not giving way, on phone while driving etc) . Come for a ride with me and I will show you.

Avatar
RedfishUK replied to denzzz28 | 9 years ago
0 likes
denzzz28 wrote:

This is a bit hypocritical. if you compare both cars and cyclist jumping red lights, the cyclist will out number the cars 10 folds. not a single day when I cycle to work that I dont see a cyclist jumping red lights. some cars do jump them but its rare.

1. I don't think it is rare at all, especially of you take cars that speed up when lights turn amber/red
2. The main statistic is how many KSI are caused by cars jumping and cycles jumping red lights, and that changes things a lot.

Pages

Latest Comments