Near Miss of the Day 923: Bus driver commits “hair-raising” overtake towards lane of oncoming cyclists… before blasting horn and “giving them the finger”

I don't see anything in what they said to suggest that they even think about 3rd party reporting of dangerous driving as being part of the picture of improving road safety.

Perhaps I missed it. Or perhaps I didn't .

I think that you deserve some opprobium for judging other people's lives without walking in their shoes

My experience over many years is that City of London police do nothing on these reports.  And bus companies, at best a generic email.

As a sole parent, with a full time job and long commute, I decide what is worth my valuable time not you.  And attempting to blame me, even partially, for that appalling driving is just revolting. 

You also have no idea what I do and don't do to drive change.  You might think that reporting this to the police would meaningfully "drive change".   After many years of dutifully reporting such incidents to almost zero effect, I completely disagree.  I'd report this if it happened in Leicestershire, where I get comprehensive response to reports, including confirmation of action taken.  I will only devote my time to reporting the worst of the worst in City of London, because they have never actioned anything else that I have reported.  Other than "fish in a barrel" phone driving reports that they don't actually have to do any work for.  So you can do one, mate. 

If you report it to the police they may do nothing, if you don't report it they will definitely do nothing.

Thanks for that, I hadn't realised 🙄

It does seem odd that cyclists have separate lights but the same phasing.  Is phasing different at any point?  Is this in response to pedestrian worries about cyclists continuing when they have a green light, perhaps because cyclists getting used to those separate signals elsewhere nearby?

The ultimate solution there would be a separate cycle path(s) rather than just some extra lights and ASLs (bike boxes).  Then buses wouldn't be moving out to overtake cyclists because the cyclists would be in their own space.  Plus that can give them a free left turn - lights don't apply!

Can someone advise if this is (in part) a "UK standard road rules getting in the way" issue?  Some time back I recall reading that the crucial difference *  between e.g. UK and NL was that movement phases were different.  Basically if you have a green light in the UK are generally expected to be able to proceed in all directions and so the system would see cyclists to drivers' left going straight on as a problem (although does that conflict with the last Highway code clarifications?).

I know that Dutch junction design mitigates that anyway by having cyclists stop ahead of drivers (like a bike box / ASL but you're not actually on the road) so cyclists might be clear of the junction anyway before left-turning traffic got there.  (Ranty Highwayman seems to think that most Dutch junction designs are basically UK legal though [1] [2]?)

* Apart from just having "dumb lights" which generally work simply on timings and not detector loops.

I think the simple answer is that not all cyclist traffic lights are intended as early release lights, they are more there to give cyclists a good sight of the lights so that they can move off in timely fashion with the rest of the traffic rather than, as sometimes happens, having to be craning upwards to watch out for the light changing. Also I'm fairly sure at some places in London they have been introduced as an experiment and then for whatever reason it's been decided that they haven't worked, there are several locations I know of where they were originally installed with different phasing to the main lights but after a few weeks/months they switched to being in phase with the main lights.

We've got cycle early release lights - but as part of the main signals - in Edinburgh.  They probably have some use - they're not a panacea though (as some drivers simply see someone else going and go themselves, while others just see a green light and go...)

We also have cycle-only signal lights on the newest separate cycle paths.  Unfortunately at most junctions they make it less convenient for cycling as a) cyclists are held when pedestrians want to cross. (This is UK standard for historic reasons but we should eventually get beyond that) and b) at least on Leith Walk cyclists are held in several places when traffic also going straight ahead is permitted (e.g. here) - presumably because "there's only one traffic light, so cars could be turning, so we have to keep cyclists safe by stopping them"!  In the place illustrated I think it is effectively a sub--case of "cycle path gives up at junction"...  (Arguably Manderston Street - the side road - should get the "continuous footway / cycle path" treatment like Lorne Street).

Ah - found this video from Strongtowns - we have a Sustrans rep demoing this.  They both cycle straight through ignoring the cycle lights in my last image (as many do).

Further up, they're held at a cycle light and the US chap points out that pedestrians are crossing but cyclists are not (apart from the delivery guys...).  He inquires whether there are detection loops our Sustrans champion happily admits they haven't a scooby, nor why they are waiting.

Chap is clearly a fan of the "idaho stop" (not convinced) but he's right to pick up that there are lots of places where the position and or phasing of the signals is poor because we're treating cyclists the same of motor vehicles at junctions and essentially feeding them in to the road there (another example - they actually go past the cycle signal which is trying to stop them before the pedestrian crossing).

It's perhaps unfair to expect her to have all the detail - after all Edinburgh council themselves don't seem to be all over what their "arms' length" tram company is up to.  But sadly this does rather reinforce those stereotypes about exactly where Sustrans' focus is...

Steve K wrote:

The standard of driving by London bus drivers is appalling.

It is and it's got noticeably worse over recent years. I was chatting quite recently with someone who works for TfL (not a driver) who said that management have really ramped up the pressure on drivers to keep to their schedule no matter what the traffic conditions, encouraging risk-taking, and they have cut down on break times and rest periods meaning the drivers are more fatigued and prone to poor judgement. Attitudes towards cyclists seem to have changed in line with those of the driving population as a whole as well, a few years ago if you pointed out to a bus driver that they were occupying the bike box, for example, they would generally apologise and let you go first when the lights changed, now you're just as likely to get an indifferent shrug or an obscenity. The same person informed me of what I've always suspected as well, which is that if you write to the individual bus company complaining about bad driving, even with proof in the form of video footage, you will get a response saying that they take these matters very seriously and will be speaking to the driver concerned and possibly taking disciplinary action but confidentiality means they can't tell you what; in reality, according to my informant, the "action" rarely amounts to more than, "Oi Harry, some stupid cyclist has been complaining about you, watch your step mate."

if you write to the individual bus company complaining about bad driving, even with proof in the form of video footage, you will get a response saying that they take these matters very seriously and will be speaking to the driver concerned and possibly taking disciplinary action but confidentiality means they can't tell you what; in reality, according to my informant, the "action" rarely amounts to more than, "Oi Harry, some stupid cyclist has been complaining about you, watch your step mate

This is exactly right, except that Stagecoach, for instance, has now abandoned pretending to take action and just follows the police example and refuses to respond at all- presumably on the grounds that 'f****** cyclists are always complaining'

https://upride.cc/incident/sk19evw_stagecoach42_closepass/

Well they've put a sticker warning you how to behave on the back of the bus, what more do you want?

Ah, it's like the Bristol "bus gat" but the error is in the opposite sense; it should read "cyclists pass with car".  You should only overtake in a motor vehicle.

I want the notice to say what it really means, in a form acceptable to the Mail/ Torygraph/ police/ Duncan-Smith etc.: Terror Cyclists! You MUST NOT be in a position to read this when you are overtaken!!

Rendel Harris wrote:

Well they've put a sticker warning you how to behave on the back of the bus, what more do you want?

I think that a lot of bus drivers think that "Don't pass this vehicle on the inside" means that the cyclist should NEVER be there, even if they are only there because the bus driver overtook them and then moved in toward the kerb.

Had a literal experience of this, not with a bus but a transit van which overtook and then left-hooked me: when I caught up with the driver and remonstrated he said, "Did you see on the sign on the back? Can't you read or summink?"

Leaving aside the other issues, is literacy required to ride a bike (or indeed drive a car) now?

Seems discriminatory if so. Particularly when police and courts seem to be holding that looking isn't required...

I don't endorse criminal damage, but a bit of sharpie would be very tempting:

+1 to getting the standard bus company "we take  this really seriously but we can't tel you what we've done" response.  Reported this one 6 weeks ago - standard response from bus company, no response to police report.

https://sotonac-my.sharepoint.com/:v:/g/personal/dwh1f11_soton_ac_uk/Ed3...

+1 to getting the standard bus company "we take  this really seriously but we can't tell you what we've done" response

The real problem is that it's not only the bus company but the police lying to you as well- when they say they 'took action' they likely either did nothing at all or sent out the joke advice letter for the offender to throw in the bin. It's a long story, but I'm still working on this, where LancsFilth are still refusing to tell me the outcome after writing that they were 'taking action'

https://upride.cc/incident/4148vz_travellerschoicecoach_closepass/

I'm still awaiting a case from Rendel where some proper action has been taken and he's been able to find out what it was, but Bungle_52 has given me one. The point, for anyone who hasn't seen all this many times before, is that Lancashire Police claims that it's illegal for them to tell the victim or anyone else what happened and they're obviously lying- most likely because they did nothing at all. My problem is that when they're eventually forced to tell me, they might just choose to lie about that as well

I've never had a bad experience with a Birmingham bus driver until this. 

Just watched the Insignia close pass you on a blind crest with double white lines, shockingly bad driving! 

On a positive note, the council have just announced plans to make all the roads around my house 20mph.