20mph speed limits in Wales

Drinfinity wrote:

I was delayed by 90 minutes on my way back from Antur Stiniog*
 

*89'50" of that was on the M56, but imagine how much quicker I would have been if I could swerve through Llanrwst at 30. 

Yeah but then you get to the A55 and chances are that you join a long queue somewhere, there seem to be multiple incidents that cause tailbacks every week.

The 'grace period' that lets drivers doing 25 mph (20% + 2mph instead of the usual 10% + 2,mph) off the hook after the introduction of the new 20 mph speed limit ends on 17 December. Not a moment too soon.

Some great comments about the bloke from Leamington Spa who won't be visiting Wales again (already mentioned in this thread):

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/hilarious-responses-man-wh...

I'll be back in Bangor at the weekend. I'm already looking forward to negotiating the relatively calm 20 mph traffic when I run a few errands and, weather permitting, get out for a proper bike ride.

Starting to think that we on here should all commit to taking a cycling holiday in Wales next year.

I can't promise that vehicles driven outside urban areas will be as considerate (and certainly won't be doing 20 mph). But there are parts of Wales where a cycling can be great... provided you aren't expecting the terrain to be flat!

David9694 wrote:

Starting to think that we on here should all commit to taking a cycling holiday in Wales next year.

I'm planning a LEJOG next year, but unfortunately the sensible routes don't go through Wales. I will try to work in a visit before I get to my start at Land's End.

andystow wrote:

I'm planning a LEJOG next year, but unfortunately the sensible routes don't go through Wales. I will try to work in a visit before I get to my start at Land's End.

Lots of great places to ride so I hope it isn't a fleeting visit. Keep us informed of your plans, it would be good to know when you're doing it. One of the nicer LEJOG routes passes through Shrewsbury and the LBS is visited frequently by those en route in need of assistance.

On the whole you're right - though the Ride Across Britain (supported LEJOG) dips into Wales on Day 3 and wends up the Wye valley - and a lovely route it is too. 

David9694 wrote:

Englishman says he will 'stop coming' to Wales on holiday because it is 'too risky' with 20mph speed limit

'It looks as if Wales' loss will be Devon's gain'

"Sadly we have deiced to call a stop to our Welsh breaks as we are not prepared to risk a large fine and three penalty points for accidently doing 22mph in a built up area. It looks as if Wales' loss will be Devon's gain. I might add that several of our acquaintances all feel the same. We will really miss Wales."

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/englishman-says-stop-comin...

It's a little realised fact (I read it on a website once) that the Welsh 20mph limits in the villages and towns is to make it easier for those in The Welsh Hinterlands to capture English tourist, for rendering into pie-meat and also the stuff sold for kebabs. 

Not that any Welsh person would eat such things.  They sell them to the English tourists who manage to get through to Little England Beyond Wales. (I imagine that The Scot will enjoy them too, mind).

Cugel, adopted by The Welsh because too bitter for the pies.

David9694 wrote:

Englishman says he will 'stop coming' to Wales on holiday because it is 'too risky' with 20mph speed limit

'It looks as if Wales' loss will be Devon's gain'

 

I think you have your gain and loss mixed up

Wrexham magistrate quits rather than enforce 20mph law

Good news- it is to be hoped that many police officers will also do the decent thing and accept the consequences of their refusal to enforce pretty much any traffic law ever

wtjs wrote:

Wrexham magistrate quits rather than enforce 20mph law

Good news- it is to be hoped that many police officers will also do the decent thing and accept the consequences of their refusal to enforce pretty much any traffic law ever

In this day and age, would anyone notice the absence of the  polis? For millions and millions, such an absence is already evident, unless you want to protest that "the authorities" are in cahoots with world-burning, war-mongering loons.

Mind, the avid polis of Derbyshire, was it, did all that policing of dog walkers in remote hill areas during Covid. If it wasn't for droning after those dangerous terrorists with their dripping conks and evil hounds, we'd all be dead now!

And don't forget their very important work stopping and lecturing grandads and little girls & boys daring to ride their bicycles without a polystyrene hat! If that sort of behaviour is allowed to spread, civilisation will soon crumble.

Then there's all the hard work ignoring loons looning in cars ..... . It's exhausting having to turn so many blind eyes!

David9694 wrote:

Multiple 'go-slow' protests planned over Wales' 20mph speed limit

The protests are taking place as part of 'National Convoy Day' organised to oppose the Ultra Low Emission Zone in London

...

So - lemme get this right - this is "malicious compliance"?  Drivers are trying to make a point by pedantically following the law and driving extra carefully*?

Please can this be something that takes off and then becomes a regular thing, like drum and bass on a bike!

(* I'm assuming that they're not invoking the Critical Mass rule of keeping going if traffic lights change when the group is passing through - though I'm not sure drivers of motor vehicles have the same excuse of "safety".)

Can't see anything in the news today (the day after) about any of this. 

David9694 wrote:

The Tory opposition leader: "Our position is simple: there are much more important things to be focusing on than new measures to restrict car users even further, " and the sheer brass neck "which inevitably negatively impacts the most vulnerable."

Presumably they're feeling vulnerable themselves - to the effects of angry drivers voters...

bikeman01 wrote:

My mother lives in Swansea, Wales. Here is her take on 20mph.

- 20mph through villages, housing estates, schools etc is sensible.

- Swansea has lots of main roads, some dual carriageways. All are now 20mph. It's very difficult to keep to 20 on these roads without looking consistently at your speedo.

- Plenty of aggression from frustrated drivers and overtaking in inappropriate places

- Some people are driving at 15mph.

- Lots of rat running down side streets.

- Very difficult to pull out of side roads when theres a constant stream of 20mph cars bumper to bumper.

Sounds like the expected shit show to me.

I think every villiage in Oxfordshire is already 20mph and it's not caused an uproar because most accept that it is being used appropriately. But this blanket change from 30 to 20 in Wales is madness.

That doesn't seem to match up with the data. From https://datamap.gov.wales/maps/roads-affected-by-changes-to-the-speed-limit-on-re/

Quote:

When the Senedd voted in favour in July 2022, Wales became the first UK nation to pass legislation to lower the default national speed limit on residential roads and busy pedestrian streets from 30mph to 20mph. The new speed limit came into force on Sunday 17 September 2023.

The new legislation is not a blanket speed limit on all roads, it simply changes the default speed limit on restricted roads from 30mph to 20mph. Highway authorities, who know their area best, engaged with their local communities to decide which roads should remain at 30mph.

Exceptions to 20mph default speed limits

This map shows:

a. roads remaining at 30mph speed limit (‘exceptions’)

Some highway authorities have also shown:  

b. roads that are currently 30mph by Order and will stay at 30mph

c. roads that are 20mph by virtue of legislation (restricted roads)

d. roads that are 20mph by Order

I dont go there myself often but I can assure you there are a lot more roads in and around Swansea than the few exceptions that that map shows. 

Anyway she is 85. I expect she thinks everywhere is now 20. 

bikeman01 wrote:

I dont go there myself often but I can assure you there are a lot more roads in and around Swansea than the few exceptions that that map shows. 

Anyway she is 85. I expect she thinks everywhere is now 20. 

I can't add any local knowledge to that, but it sounds peculiar that the map specifically for that purpose would be incorrect.

I think bikeman's point is that the excepted roads shown in the Swansea area are a very small proportion of the roads - so many others are 20mph. Unfortunately (but perhaps unsurprisingly) it seems the map is not complete - only some highways authorities have marked various categories of road. 

However, I still don't get the speedo obsession. Ok, there might be a small adjustment period as you acclimatise to what the reduced speed looks/feels/sounds like. But if you weren't previously glued to your speedo to ensure you were doing 30, you won't need to be glued to it now to do 20.  

quiff wrote:

I think bikeman's point is that the excepted roads shown in the Swansea area are a very small proportion of the roads - so many others are 20mph. Unfortunately (but perhaps unsurprisingly) it seems the map is not complete - only some highways authorities have marked various categories of road. 

However, I still don't get the speedo obsession. Ok, there might be a small adjustment period as you acclimatise to what the reduced speed looks/feels/sounds like. But if you weren't previously glued to your speedo to ensure you were doing 30, you won't need to be glued to it now to do 20.  

It just seems to me that some of the complaints aren't relevant as a dual carriageway is hardly a residential road. Is she misinformed about the scheme (likely) or is it that the Senedd had been overzealous and not entirely truthful?

There are definitely some questionable examples. E.g. in my neck of the woods, this stretch of road recently dropped to 20mph. I don't particularly mind, but it's not residential, and until a couple of years ago the speed limit was 40 (then dropped to 30 when surrounding roads became subject to one of the pilot 20 zones), so I can see why some might think it's unnecessarily low.    

quiff wrote:

There are definitely some questionable examples. E.g. in my neck of the woods, this stretch of road recently dropped to 20mph. I don't particularly mind, but it's not residential, and until a couple of years ago the speed limit was 40 (then dropped to 30 when surrounding roads became subject to one of the pilot 20 zones), so I can see why some might think it's unnecessarily low.    

With that amount of traffic on it, 20mph might be an aspiration

Absolutely - I suspect the 20 limit may be partly to improve flow.   

quiff wrote:

There are definitely some questionable examples. E.g. in my neck of the woods, this stretch of road recently dropped to 20mph. I don't particularly mind, but it's not residential, and until a couple of years ago the speed limit was 40 (then dropped to 30 when surrounding roads became subject to one of the pilot 20 zones), so I can see why some might think it's unnecessarily low.    

I see plenty of pedestrians on a pavement directly adjacent to the roadway with no protection, so yeah, 20 MPH seems appropriate.

Maybe the Welsh government could promise drivers they'll raise it to 25 MPH if drivers can go two years without killing anyone.