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Surrey County Council wants more control over sportives

Responds to complaint that residents are “sick to the back teeth” of “races” on narrow country lanes

Surrey County Council has called on the Government to revise current regulations covering sportives, lamenting that it has no power to regulate such events.

Get Surrey reports that the council was recently contacted by local resident Alison Dicks, who said: "I live in the Chiddingfold area and we are all sick to the back teeth of cycling road races taking place on very narrow country lanes. They have absolutely no respect for other road users, including those on horseback."

She said a cyclist avoiding a pothole had recently hit her car after coming round a blind bend on the wrong side of the road – “he apologised profusely” – adding that she and her dogs had been forced to take evasive action the following day when a group of seven cyclists “came round a dark blind bend at full pelt".

Seemingly of the opinion that the cyclists in question were taking part in an organised event, she asked: "Are they above the law when it comes to speeding and road safety? Do the organisers of these events have to obtain a permit? If so, why are the local residents not consulted? Is it going to take a death before these events are properly managed?"

Glyn Durrant, of the Surrey Cycle Racing League, said it was more likely the cyclists had been on a charity ride.

"These are not regulated like our races and cause a lot of problems to us as well as residents. A lot of these charity rides can appear to be races to those who don't understand the difference. Every race we run has a following referee and we do not stand for anti-social behaviour of any type."

In response to Dicks’ complaint, the council's highways department said it had "no powers to give permission for open road events such as sportives."

It added: "Under current legislation, event organisers are not required to give notification of open road sporting events, though many do so voluntarily.

"We issue organisers with a code of conduct, where we receive event notification, and ask that participants should receive a full safety briefing, although we are relying here on goodwill and do not have means to enforce this."

It continued by saying: "Surrey County Council and partners do not agree with the current legal and regulatory split in oversight of these events.

"We strongly support changes to the current position regarding sportive events which are run on open roads.

"We have been calling on the Government to revise the current regulations to cover sportive events that are not currently regulated.

"We have been concerned to hear of the safety issues described and are in correspondence with police partners and the event organiser to address future event safety."

In 2013, a Surrey resident launched a campaign demanding that the county council not allow closed-road cycle events, such as RideLondon-Surrey, arguing that they turned roads into a “cycle track”.

There have also been complaints that too many cycling events are using Box Hill with reports of anti-social behaviour by riders.

This ill-feeling has at times manifested itself in acts of sabotage. Last year a small group of anti-cycling protesters threw tacks and removed signage, forcing the organisers of the Kelly’s Summer Cycle sportive to shorten the 75 mile route to 55 miles.

Alex has written for more cricket publications than the rest of the road.cc team combined. Despite the apparent evidence of this picture, he doesn't especially like cake.

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24 comments

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drosco | 6 years ago
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Do lycra louts exist outside of the pages of the Daily Mail? Bar the odd overbearing club rider who sees it their business to bark orders at everyone, I can't say I've ever had issues with other riders.

Disclosure: I wear lycra, ride 6000+ miles a year, do the odd domestic and European sportive and have been riding road bikes for 30 years.  

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davel replied to drosco | 6 years ago
0 likes
drosco wrote:

Do lycra louts exist outside of the pages of the Daily Mail? Bar the odd overbearing club rider who sees it their business to bark orders at everyone, I can't say I've ever had issues with other riders.

Disclosure: I wear lycra, ride 6000+ miles a year, do the odd domestic and European sportive and have been riding road bikes for 30 years.  

I've probably only really had the same type of issue as yourself, but I'm an experienced cyclist and know what to look out for, seemingly like yourself. But I've seen quite a bit of bullying of inexperienced cyclists: the 'overbearing club rider' or weekend warriors using it as an excuse to feel better about their own lack of experience, through harassing people doing their first 50-miler, hogging the road, littering.

Could just be my own confirmation bias, of course, and could just be no more full of twats than any other congregation.

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Deeferdonk replied to drosco | 6 years ago
2 likes
drosco wrote:

Do lycra louts exist outside of the pages of the Daily Mail? Bar the odd overbearing club rider who sees it their business to bark orders at everyone, I can't say I've ever had issues with other riders.

If you never see the lycra lout maybe that means you are him!  1

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drosco replied to Deeferdonk | 6 years ago
1 like
Deeferdonk wrote:
drosco wrote:

Do lycra louts exist outside of the pages of the Daily Mail? Bar the odd overbearing club rider who sees it their business to bark orders at everyone, I can't say I've ever had issues with other riders.

If you never see the lycra lout maybe that means you are him!  1

Clearly.

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ConcordeCX replied to drosco | 6 years ago
2 likes

drosco wrote:

Do lycra louts exist outside of the pages of the Daily Mail? Bar the odd overbearing club rider who sees it their business to bark orders at everyone, I can't say I've ever had issues with other riders.

 

Warning

When I am an old MAMIL I shall wear lycra 
And a jersey which doesn't fit, and doesn't suit me. 
And I shall spend my pension on Rapha's expensive gloves 
And Pinarellos, and say we've no money for butter. 
I shall sit down on the pavement when I'm tired 
And gobble up carbo in gels and ping my nice bell
And ride my bike around the Surrey hillsides 
And make up for the sobriety of my youth. 
I shall ride without mudguards in the rain 
And throw wrappers in other people's gardens 
And rocket snot. 

You can wear terrible shorts and grow more fat 
And eat three pounds of sausages at a go 
Or only rice and pasta for a week 
And hoard mechs and wrenches and wheelsets and things in boxes. 

But now we must have kit that keeps us dry 
And stay in lane and not jump the red light 
And set a good example for the drivers. 
We must have friends to ride with, in marshalled races. 

But maybe I ought to practise a little now? 
So people who know me are not too shocked and surprised 
When suddenly I'm a lout, and start to wear lycra. 

(With apologies to Jenny Joseph)
http://www.scottishpoetrylibrary.org.uk/poetry/poems/warning
 

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drosco | 6 years ago
0 likes

Is this the latest thing to be pretentious about? For my sins like to ride the odd sportive, so that probably means I'm not a serious cyclist. For one, I don't even have a beard.

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davel replied to drosco | 6 years ago
1 like
drosco wrote:

Is this the latest thing to be pretentious about? For my sins like to ride the odd sportive, so that probably means I'm not a serious cyclist. For one, I don't even have a beard.

It isn't a recent thing, but their proliferation has probably exacerbated it. There wouldn't be as much disdain for them if they were treated as what they're meant as. It's the 'lycra lout' element who are confused as to what they're for that cause the problems.

Disclosure: I wear lycra, I commute quickly, I train on the road, I race occasionally, and have done the odd sportive. I've found the worst type of cyclist figures quite highly in sportives, but that could just be my confirmation bias. Nonetheless, I'm glad of sportives as I think they're a bit like lycra lout fly paper: I'd rather that element's group cluelessness was confined to events I rarely do.

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nbrus | 6 years ago
0 likes

Why do we need sportives?... if you want to go on a ride and give money to charity, then go do it on your own, at your own pace, or even better arrange a ride with one or more friends. Save yourself a few quid in the process and ride any route you want without feeling that you are in a race.

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korblimey replied to nbrus | 6 years ago
0 likes

We need Ride London to get pollution belching traffic off the roads for just 1 day and enjoy closed roads for 100 miles. It’s totally surreal. And brilliant.

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Beecho | 6 years ago
2 likes

Heading out of the city from my South London home, put crudely, I have two choices: turn left for Kent, right for Surrey.

Kent may be full of chavs and cabbies, but I always turn left. Way too much of everything else you want to avoid going on in Surrey.

And in the main, Sportives can fuck off. And then fuck off some more. 

Kind regards,

Miserable twat, getting old, craving space on the roads 

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dorkingdan | 6 years ago
1 like

As a local resident (nr Leith Hill), cyclist, Surrey League racer and sportive participant I do have some sympathy. Sportives are open road recreational rides but a significant minority don't recognise this. I struggle at times to drive safely round groups when an event is on.

Surrey League races are very tightly controlled to minimise the impact of residents (at significant effort to Glyn and organising clubs).
So it would be a real setback to cycling as a whole to have further controls here as a result of people "racing" spotives and not real races.

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Chapo | 6 years ago
1 like

Government should be encouraging recreational activity rather than penalizing them and ignoring the wider issue of a burgeoning recreationally inactive generation.

And why are all cyclists who magically appear from a corner described as "racing"?!

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BarryBianchi replied to Chapo | 6 years ago
1 like

finkcreative wrote:

And why are all cyclists who magically appear from a corner described as "racing"?!

 

Weeeeellll, in reality it's the ones who have decended from the City for the day and regard riding as an extension of their work activities whereby one tries to kebab any mere mortal on the other side of a deal, and thus feel they have to make every aspect of it a competition, and are enternally congicent of the fact that they "could be pissing all over this in an Overfinch Range Rover".

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BarryBianchi | 6 years ago
6 likes

Take a big bunch of people, and a propotion of them will be twats.  Put them all on bikes, and a very similar proportion will be twats on bikes.

I live in the middle of all this - there is a lot of twatty and irresponsible riding these days, and it's getting worse.  A lot of people seem to thing that just because they have paid £25 and are following some brightly coloured arrows around the countryside, the roads are for their exclusive convienience, and it's fine to drift around bends 4 wide and ignore give ways etc.

Goes without saying that there is a lot of twatty driving too.

Modern Britian on wheels.

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davel | 6 years ago
4 likes

"Are they above the law when it comes to speeding..."

Oops.

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Chapo | 6 years ago
4 likes

Alison Dicks claims speeding - yet offers no documented evidence of "speeding" cyclists.

I assume she is claiming excessive speed in a residential area where the speed limit is presumably 30mph. 

I don't know any cyclists who can break and sustain that speed comfortably on a flat road ... that's 48KM/h. We're talking full on world-tour pro-peloton speeds.

She also claims of not being able to hear bicycles - yet makes no complaint about electric and hybrid vehicles - which are even quieter than a group of cyclists clattering and chatting down a road.

Chiddingfold being where it is (quiet, remote, country lanes) - there are few pavements. Just thinking it would have been speeding cars and poor street lighting the biggest issues to pedestrians in this area.

I might be wrong - but as far as I can see the biggest Sportive (might be the only one) going through Chiddingfold is the Wiggle Up and Downs. 

 

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dottigirl replied to Chapo | 6 years ago
1 like

finkcreative wrote:

Chiddingfold being where it is (quiet, remote, country lanes) - there are few pavements. Just thinking it would have been speeding cars and poor street lighting the biggest issues to pedestrians in this area.

I might be wrong - but as far as I can see the biggest Sportive (might be the only one) going through Chiddingfold is the Wiggle Up and Downs. 

No matter what Glyn says, I have a feeling she is referring to Surrey League races - the Chiddingfold and Dunsfold circuits are popular. And there will probably be racers practising at other times. 

Of course, she's wilfully exaggerating the danger compared to motor traffic...

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2old2mould | 6 years ago
11 likes

"...– adding that she and her dogs had been forced to take evasive action the following day when a group of seven cyclists “came round a dark blind bend at full pelt".

I presume Ms Dicks is suggesting that full pelt would be faster than a car would have come round the bend, so in excess of 30mph? I'm going to be bold and guess that this is a bit of an over-statement. Of course it does beg the question why anyone in their right mind would cross close to a dark blind bend?

I wonder what her statement would have been had it been a car that had hit her avoiding the pot hole. Both drivers would have looked mournfully into the hole, bemoaned the lack of money being spent on road upkeep and let their insurance companies sort it out. 

I like this... "Is it going to take a death before these events are properly managed?"

Ms Dicks, if you were a cyclist you would know that something as trivial as a death does not stir action when it comes to improving road safety.

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alansmurphy replied to 2old2mould | 6 years ago
5 likes

2old2mould wrote:

"...– adding that she and her dogs had been forced to take evasive action the following day when a group of seven cyclists “came round a dark blind bend at full pelt".

I presume Ms Dicks is suggesting that full pelt would be faster than a car would have come round the bend, so in excess of 30mph? I'm going to be bold and guess that this is a bit of an over-statement. Of course it does beg the question why anyone in their right mind would cross close to a dark blind bend?

I wonder what her statement would have been had it been a car that had hit her avoiding the pot hole. Both drivers would have looked mournfully into the hole, bemoaned the lack of money being spent on road upkeep and let their insurance companies sort it out. 

I like this... "Is it going to take a death before these events are properly managed?"

Ms Dicks, if you were a cyclist you would know that something as trivial as a death does not stir action when it comes to improving road safety.

 

They were going so fast she had time to take evasive action and count them, I wish cars would pass me this fast!

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arckuk | 6 years ago
12 likes

As a Londoner, I'd like to complain about all the people from Surrey coming into our city every weekday, turning the place into a car park. Just the other day someone from Guildford nearly knocked me off my bike, and acted like the 50 metres between one bunch of  static traffic and the next was a racetrack as they hared up to 45 mph then screeched to a halt with no respect for other road users. Something must be done, I tell you!

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drosco | 6 years ago
6 likes

How terribly Surrey.

This is where I live and ride incidentally. It's too bad for the nimbys I'm afraid. Cycling is a massive thing now and there is a whole local economy revolving around it. It might annoy Ms Dicks, but she's onto a loser. Local government know this too.

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Rapha Nadal | 6 years ago
3 likes

Dicks by name, dicks by nature.

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Simboid | 6 years ago
5 likes

So Ms. Dicks is the official spokesperson for "all' residents? Think not. 

Will some of those cyclists live locally and be residents themselves? More than likely.

Walking dogs in the road is a safe and responsible thing to do do? Probably not.

 

Why didn't she just moan about the pothole instead of the fully entitled road user avoiding it, as one is supposed to? The council could actually do something about that.

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Velovoyeur | 6 years ago
3 likes

It was only a matter of time before something like this appeared. It is a very awkward situation whereby nobody wishes to stifle the enthusiasm and vast numers who ride sportives but the behaviour of some participants, who think they are in a race, needs getting under control.

If you are in a proper race, it will be an authorised event which has a police permit, has been fully risk assessed and will have a large safety structure surrounding it.  There will also be commissaires present to ensure safety, conduct  and to manage the third party impact (wrong word but you know what I mean) of the event. Also, it will be compliant to the racing on the Highways Act 1960.  

The problem arises when some people cannot decipher the difference between a race and a mass participation ride. The behaviour and conduct of some riders in sportives is shocking and it their actions that are causing the problems. If they wish to race then enter a race and play by the rules, if you wish to ride with others enter a sportive and ride appropriately.

 

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