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news
GWR bike storage (picture courtesy Sam Jones, Cycling UK)Cycling UK slams "awful" cycle storage on GWR's high-speed trains
Cyclists on two of the UK’s main rail lines are encountering problems with bike storage on the latest generation of high-speed trains – not only because space is extremely limited, but also due to many being unable to physically fit their bikes in the allotted spaces, with Cycling UK describing the provision as “awful.”
GWR, which operates services to the Wales and the south west of England, and LNER, the operator of trains on the East Coast Main Line to destinations including York, Newcastle upon Tyne and Edinburgh, both now have fleets of trains from the Hitachi AT300 family.
They were first introduced in the UK by GWR in October 2017 under the brand name Intercity Express Train and entered service on the East Coast Main Line in May this year, with the brand name Azuma.
We’ve previously reported on one road.cc reader’s experience of trying to board one of the GWR trains and the difficulty he had once on board, and recent posts to Twitter show that he is far from alone.
Indeed, this morning Cycling UK – who were heading this morning from Reading to today’s Pedal on the Senedd ride in Cardiff to call for more money for cycling – tweeted a picture of the bike storage space they encountered, contrasting it with the situation on trains in France.
Tell me about it!! I've not met one member of GWR staff who are not critical, they hate them. To make matters worse you have to use a foot passenger door to get your bike on and some trains don't even mark all the bike carriages! Designed by non cyclists I bet.
— Steve Cleave (@DevonBikeRider) October 2, 2019
While the experience can be frustrating for cyclists, who on the routes concerned will have typically been required to book a place for their bike, it can also creates problems for the train operators, since difficulties in getting a bicycle on or off the train can lead to delayed departure.
A search on the Twitter feeds of both LNER and GWR highlights plenty of examples of passengers who have had problems using the trains while travelling with bikes, some in response to Cycling UK’s tweet today.
Try getting a modern mountain bike in there!
— J T Furry (@Looseend) October 2, 201
It is the same on the train I am on, which is headed to Swansea. I can't share a picture because the person concerned has got off, but s/he had resorted to wedging the bike (a modestly proportioned gravel bike) across the available space on its rear wheel.
— Shivaji Shiva (@ShivajiShivaLaw) October 2, 2019
Sam Jones, senior campaigns officer at Cycling UK, who was on the train and took the photos, told road.cc that not only is the storage space almost impossible to use for people travelling with anything other than a road bike, but it also means that many disabled people who have no trouble cycling – as highlighted in Wheels for Wellbeing’s campaign, My Cycle, My Mobility Aid – would be unable to use such trains.
He said: "Putting it simply this sort of provision is dreadful. It might work if the only bike people used were road bikes with skinny tyres and narrow handlebars but that's not the case.
"30 per cent of the bikes bought in the UK are mountain bikes with wider tyres that will really struggle to fit on those ludicrous hooks – and that's assuming the handlebars will fit into this broom cupboard masquerading as cycle storage. 26 per cent of the bikes sold are classic or hybrid bikes and only 10 per cent road, so this design does seem to cater to the minority of bike users.
"One of the biggest problems of cycle carriage is the diversity of bikes – a one size fits all solution isn't always possible, but this is a design that would seem to fit only a minority.
"In the end, when the space cleared I was able to fit my bike, but only with considerable effort and manhandling to get my 26x2.0 tyres into the hook - removing the bike was not an easy process either. I'm relatively young and fit and have to ask if I struggled how would someone older or less able than I fare?
"It's a design that is not future proofed either, as with more people buying e-bikes that are not exactly light – how will they manage to lift up such a heavy bike and manhandle it in such a confined space?
"It's exceptionally disappointing to see on a new train – this could and should have been avoided with proper consultation before the rolling stock was entered into service," he added.
Here is a selection of tweets about the bike storage on the trains currently being rolled out across LNER's network.
We TOLD the designers about issues when a group tried out the mock-up but still seem to have kept (& possibly enhanced ) the details that didn't work. Same for @Scotrail #NewHST where @leecraigie_'s bike activated emergency brakes, & @CrossCountryUK #Voyagers pic.twitter.com/wA0Q7HpEoN
— Dave H - Scourging along in 60% viscose (ie Lycra) (@BCCletts) October 1, 2019
We TOLD the designers about issues when a group tried out the mock-up but still seem to have kept (& possibly enhanced ) the details that didn't work. Same for @Scotrail #NewHST where @leecraigie_'s bike activated emergency brakes, & @CrossCountryUK #Voyagers pic.twitter.com/wA0Q7HpEoN
— Dave H - Scourging along in 60% viscose (ie Lycra) (@BCCletts) October 1, 2019
Simon joined road.cc as news editor in 2009 and is now the site’s community editor, acting as a link between the team producing the content and our readers. A law and languages graduate, published translator and former retail analyst, he has reported on issues as diverse as cycling-related court cases, anti-doping investigations, the latest developments in the bike industry and the sport’s biggest races. Now back in London full-time after 15 years living in Oxford and Cambridge, he loves cycling along the Thames but misses having his former riding buddy, Elodie the miniature schnauzer, in the basket in front of him.
Latest Comments
- RoubaixCube 17 min 49 sec ago
You mean they called up one of their friends or family members to stump up the £7 to get it greenlit....
- bensynnock 20 min 29 sec ago
There are plenty of students who come from very wealthy families, which doesn't also mean that there aren't students who don't.
- Keesvant 28 min 40 sec ago
If the chains snap that is lack of build quality or material.....
- hawkinspeter 43 min 30 sec ago
It probably depends on which police force is involved....
- Hirsute 1 hour 24 min ago
"Wisdom is better than weapons of war, but one sinner destroys much good."
- Jaijai 1 hour 49 min ago
His life was only worth shy of 7 years ,that's too lenient in every book .Let alone drugged up and leaving him to die
- webbierwrex 1 hour 54 min ago
I came here to basically write the same thing, the floating bus stop near me has a very narrow cycling lane between a very narrow pavement and a...
- AS52 2 hours 17 min ago
It wasn't an official consultation meeting - see my comment above.
- GMBasix 2 hours 50 min ago
Right, well that could be handy: I'm going round with my baseball bat to have a quiet chat about ownership. You can use their names to see if they...
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26 comments
The old 125s were never great with the compartment up by the engine but a real opportunity was missed with the new trains. What's also annoying (GWR) is the new 'stopper' trains that have doors at the end of the carriages; why don't (similar to trains in Europe) they just have big doors in the middle that get people on/off quickly and space for bikes. Another missed opportunity. That said, GWR in the Bristol/Bath area are pretty easy-going ref squeezing lots of bikes on so it's not all bad. 'Sharp elbows and no quarter given' if you're trying to get a bike onto a busy train!
I've always wondered if the bike racks on the IETs were designed for Japanese-style bikes - the mamachari-type shoppers maybe. Doesn't make it OK, but would be understandable.
It's been confirmed previously that the 'fault' isn't so much GWR's, as the specifications given by the DoT in the contracts for the trains. The contract focused on increasing the number of seats which is why there's no guard van (or restaurant car, for that matter).
What really irritates me is you can't actually plan a trip as it is. I live near Bristol and would love to, for instance, get a train down to Exeter, ride around Dartmoor and then get a train home. But I can't be sure that when I arrive back at Exeter I will be able to get my bike on a train within a reasonable time. They're costing themselves business.
I’ve used the ‘wardrobes’ a few times. The trick is to get any bikes that are waiting on the platform, with a booking, on the train quickly. Once the bikes are on, arrange them so that the smaller of any bike goes in first, with the bars up, then any larger bike with the bars down, and so on. Take any panniers off, or they won’t go in. The ‘wardrobes’ really aren’t fit for purpose, but if you have to use them, there is a way to get them to ( sort of ) work.
I pointed all this out to GWR's senior management before they'd even ordered the trains. Got fobbed off with the usual "we are committed to cycling" tosh.
The really annoying thing is that when they had the old HSTs, GWR really were bike friendly, most of the time.
I just hope Cycling UK's complaints get a better response than mine, was was zero. But then I'm just a commuter who has the temerity to take his bike on the train.
One thing I should point out is that these trains have more "bike spaces" than they advertise, and they are placed so that it is possible to use at least one even on short platforms. However you have to know where they are, and if you are an occasional user you won't know this.
As far as I can see, these trains have been designed to maximise the number of seats available at the expense of everything else. And they even fail at this, since they are regularly standing room only (and there's nowhere left to stand (other than the bike spaces!).
The train companies expect you to have multiple bicycles and to dare to lock them up for extended periods of time at their stations.
Which of course also happen to be hotspots of bicycle theft.
I understand from the front page of my recent copy of CycleReading, that the racks that were installed when Reading station was being improved, are susceptable to the theives removing the entire sliding top rail with attached bicycle. Apparently Reading Bourough Council are only now planning to install CCTV which specifically covers the bike racks.
Luckily for me, whenever my commute has included a train component, it has involved the little Thames Turbos, the luxurious 166s even had bike spaces (unfortunately most were shipped off the the south west) and the 2 carriage 165s have very odd bike spaces where you have to get past seated passengers. But the 3 carriage 165s did allow full size bicycles in the vestibule area and the very friendly guards never said anything about it no matter how many bikes were on their train.
There were a few occasions when I couldn't get on for my journey home, the train being very overcrowded, and had to wait, but as long as I had something to read.
Longer journeys take far more planning now unfortunately.
It's a complete lotery. Here is Northern Rail's policy:
Northern is strongly committed to promoting cycling as a sustainable and healthy means of transport that complements our train service. Our vision is to 'connect people to opportunities by the most sustainable means' and cycling has an important role to play.
We want to do more to make this an attractive option so we are working with local authorities and the cycling community to see where we can make our stations more cycle-friendly.
Bikes are carried free of charge at any time and you don't need to make reservations.
The cycle space on trains is clearly marked, both internally and externally. Space is allocated on a first come, first served basis.
We can only carry a maximum of two bikes per train but conductors have responsibility for the safety of their train and have the right to refuse entry if the train is busy.
Please note: a 'bike' refers to an unpowered two-wheel cycle - it excludes tandems, tricycles, power-assisted cycles and trailers.
It all sounds great until you get to the last three pargraphs which make total nonsence of everything that preceed them.
Sorry, mate - but please don't pick on Northern Rail?
From MANY years of using their network for commuting and leisure, mainy east of the Pennines, I know that's their policy.
But I also know
- the countless times their staff have had 4, 6, or even 10 bikes on a train;
- countless times they've let me and family on - tandem + 2-3 bikes;
- a coupla times I've travelled with a cargo tricycle;
- the penny farthing I saw on a Northern train.
With NEVER a cross word, argument, jobsworth strop
The most "trouble" I've ever had on Northern Rail has been when I hoped to take a very over-crowded morning commuter train from Cross Gates into Leeds a coupla times ... and the guard was so apologetic, that there just wasn't room on the train.
Hey ... not a big deal! Given their unfailingly friendly service, and incredibly relaxed attitude to their stated policy, it's the easiest thing in the world for me to plan to take an earlier train.
Northern Rail and bikes? Forget their policies ... their practices are just brilliant.
Do I defend with the same passion ... TransPennine? Or LNER? Or the utterly damnable CrossCountry (whether Virgin, Arriva, or whatever)? Hmm ... wonder why not. One guess will be enough ... if unprintable.
Growingvegetables, I wasn't picking on NR and I'm very pleased to hear of your positive experiences with them - it's very reassuring. My point is that their policy is self-contradictory and discourages cycle usage. For example I wanted to travel down to London from Harrogate. I could book a place for my bike on the Leeds-london part of the journey but there was no guarantee that I could get my bike on the Harrogate-Leeds train. I therefore made alternative arrangements, which is a shame because I would much rather support the rail network.
What I find so frustrating is that now that the world has become conscious of the need to reduce car usage the ideal option is bike and train (local journey on bike, long distance on train) but we don't have the provision. Back in the bad old days, when nobody gave a toss about the environment, we guards vans where there was always enough room for bikes, including tandems. Privatisation of the railways has a lot to answer for, but also the government where there is absolutely no joined up thinking with regard to transport policy and its funding (ie why do we heavily subsidise private car use but railways have make a profit?). I could go on forever on this one....
Life was so simple when we had a Guards van on a train.
Bike storage on trains, luxury! You’re welcome to come Down Under, where our NSW intercity trains have none that I’ve seen. You are expected to make do with the wheelchair space unless someone in a wheelchair needs it, in which case be prepared to stand holding your bike for up to 3+ hours.
Our Regional trains are the equivalent of GWR etc, bicycles are treated as booked luggage and there’s a limit of 3 of 5 per train depending on route, it costs $12.10 for them to show no care or responsibility (they limit liability to $300) and must be packed in a box no bigger than 135cm x 80cm x 24cm and weigh no more than 20kg. Because we all want to have the joy of dismantling and reassembling our bike and wondering what the hell to do with the box at our destination… only a few stations have the cardboard ones available.
And if you wish to travel with a tandem...
What's the point of comparing UK train storage space with that of a country who have a ton more space on their trains to play with? Would people in this just stop comparing apples with oranges.
What country is this you are you speaking of? Japanese trains are more crammed than anywhere else in the (developed) World but my point is that they still managed to find a solution that works for them, does not require pre-booking and does not restrict the number of bikes per coach.
It's up to you brits to find a solution that works for you. The first step could be to engage the brain and face the essential problem with transporting bikes in trains and buses, namely, that they really can and often do inconvenience other users. That's what rinko is all about: if you break down and bag the bike it no longer snags other people's clothes, doesn't smear them with grease and also takes up less space. You essentially have eliminated all reasonable causes for complaint.
Contrast this with the default occidental, anglo-saxon approach of pushing for what is convenient for you against the convenience of others. Nimbyism and pressure groups of course work well for the party that manages to come out on top but at the cost of leaving everyone else unhappy and hostile. Granted you have to defend your corner but there have to be smarter ways of achieving you end?
(edited)
I do not intend to let your transport authorities off the hook but perhaps there is a also cultural misunderstanding here, given that these are Hitachi-built trains. Japan has a wonderful concept called rinko: any bike can be carried in a train or bus but it must be bagged and have a compact form-factor. Non-folding bikes with the fork removed fit the prescribed volume, and a small cubicle can hold many 'rinkoed' bikes, which is a necessity given the famously crowded Japanese trains. Google Jan Heine's blog for detailed explanation of Rinko.
Interesting point about the way the Japanese trains cater for bikes, but I think the these ones would have been configured to the spec provided by GWR, who still haven't realised that people who bring bikes on the trains are their customers and they should maybe think about making joined up, sustainable transport a bit easier instead of an after-thought.
My local station has a "short" platform, so only the front 5 carriages open their doors when the train stops, yet several times the carriage with these cycle spaces has been in carriage 7 and therefore inaccessable to me. Doesn't stop train staff telling you you're in the wrong carriage though. Gimps.
2 biking issues I've noticed with those Hitachi trains.
1. The luggage racks are too small for any folding bike but a brompton. Gawd help you if you have a BTWIN Dahon etc.
2. GWR in their infinite wisdom have decided 2 bikes per cycle carriage are fine, and have a cupboard reading beware of the Leopard where Virgin have 4 of the crappy vertical mounts which at least gives more options in a quieter service. That makes 4 full size bikes per 10 coach intercity instead of 6 bikes per 8 coach old GWR intercity 125. Anglia who are still running the old 125's have at least 8 bike spaces on a tradition U hoop with velcro.
Fail upon fail. They really don't give a crap.
It's 6 on greater Anglia now and you have to reserve 24 hours in advance.
Its officially 6 on the Intercity trains,but they can & did fit 8 in their trailer van as they did for the Dunwich Dynamo this year...however those trains are being replaced with brand new ones that have claimed space for 6 still,but in a shared space seating area with 3 each side of the normal passenger aisle in the train,secured with a bit of extendable bungie style chord arrangement to the frame,it will be cycle jenga imo, I cant see fitting more than 4 in will be possible without blocking the aisle even if the area is kept free for bikes which it probably wont be
I hate that design, it doesn't work with full-length rear mudgaurds either, as the mudguards get wrecked by being in contact with the ground.
Designed by the Department for Transport. Who have also decided that people going away for a few days also need no luggage.
Not only are the actual spaces crap but they're frequently full of luggage - or people - even at departure stations. I've travelled on these trains several times and had trouble almost every time, including having to stand, holding the bike vertically because the space I'd reserved wasn't available, and having to run up and down the train trying to find a door where we could actually board.
They really would rather you didn't travel with them. I'm sure the same goes for disabled passengers and those with extra luggage - but they just can't say it because they're supposed to be a public service.
Those GWR bike hooks are useless. They don't fit anything with non-skinny tyres and/or rims, so fat-tyred mountain bikes are no-go as are deep section aero rims. Never mind that there's no chance of them fitting in a tandem, tricycle or recumbent.
What's annoying is that they could so easily have been designed better. If the hooks were pivoted, then they would fit more wheels, or even better, replace them with velcro straps and it would get around most of the issues.
(I got the train back from London last week and saw a woman with some of the fattest tyres I've seen - the rims must have been 3-4 inches across. She was escorting her bike as there was no chance of using the "facility")
A classic example of something that has been designed by someone who doesn't use the object in question. I'm not sure from this if the designer has ever even seen a bike... or a train for that matter.
Ha! You beat me to it! That was the exact same comment I'd intended to post...