Updated: More departures from Sky "highly likely" admits Dave Brailsford after Bobby Julich confesses to doping

Chuffy wrote:

To be honest I'm amazed that anyone has come forward and committed career suicide...

I think it's quite a smart move. I'd bet that most teams will look at the Garmin approach as the leading one in years to come - allow the ex-dopers in, provided that they come clean about it and commit to the vehement anti-doping approach. Which means that Julich will actually preserve a possible future career by doing this, whereas if he lies about it now and is then 'outed' later, he'd suffer a much greater harm to his reputation and most teams wouldn't touch him.

Sky's approach is clearly very harsh, and not necessarily that helpful in the anti-doping fight, but its what the sponsors want. Brailsford's comments yesterday were a big mixed message - to me, that suggests he doesn't necessarily agree with the approach, and he certainly isn't taking it as a personal issue with any of the riders (see his relationship with Millar) but that he's driven by the sponsors to do this. If that's the case, it's difficult to argue that it is a necessary step for the survival of the team.

Stumpy, think on this: DSs are almost always retired pros. Pros usually retire around the ages of 34-38/9, right? So this means that those guys will have been riding from at the latest the late 90s through the 00s. Through the height of Generation EPO in the pro peloton racing in Europe. So where are these younger DSs who have experience at racing at the top level, but are somehow unconnected with doping either directly or indirectly, supposed to come from? Because I'm afraid careers that have been spent racing for GB Conti teams, where some of the highlights would have been the Lincoln GP or Eddie Soens, isnt going to cut it as a coach or DS for the top team in the world.

Sam1 wrote:

Stumpy, think on this: DSs are almost always retired pros. Pros usually retire around the ages of 34-38/9, right? So this means that those guys will have been riding from at the latest the late 90s through the 00s. Through the height of Generation EPO in the pro peloton racing in Europe. So where are these younger DSs who have experience at racing at the top level, but are somehow unconnected with doping either directly or indirectly, supposed to come from? Because I'm afraid careers that have been spent racing for GB Conti teams, where some of the highlights would have been the Lincoln GP or Eddie Soens, isnt going to cut it as a coach or DS for the top team in the world.

You will probably find your wrong about certain points. Just because they rode during the 90 - 00's doesnt mean they are druggies, a bit of a sweeping statement. There are many riders who have never been and never will be implicated in drug use who could ply their trade as a DS and just because you were a top pro rider doesn't mean you will automatically become a brilliant DS, its a learning curve.

Look at football and rugby, a lot of top coaches never graced the international field on a regular basis but are still damn good coaches - ie Mourinho for one.

Stumpy, my point about guys who rode in the 90s and 00s wasnt that they all doped - but that everyone is at one step removed at least from a doping colleague, a doctor, even a manager. And we can see where guilt by association in going in the general hysteria. The younger DSs are from that generation of riders. I dont see how Sky can avoid that.

You used football as a comparison, citing the fact that Mourinho never played at the top intl level. True - but football and cycling are hugely different. With football, you have a much smaller set of variables and factors: a 90 min match, 1 area of competion, the pitch. 1 opposing team of 1l players. Compare that a GT of 3 weeks, avg 20 stages. Up against 21 other teams. The DSs have to plan and replan stragegies every day, and throughout the day, adapting to the terrain, the weather, the tactics of the other teams, the state of their own riders. They have to negotiate with other DSs - often ex-pros who were team mates or compatriots or even old mates - for which the network and familiarity is crucial. As is knowing from their own experience just how to get through a GT. These things cant be simulated.

Reply to Sam1. Rod Ellingworth "cuts it".

I admire you, life is not as black and white as this, this type of action benefits nobody apart from the self righteous Brailsford[/quot

Maybe it needs a harsh approach to bring a reality check to all concerned that think its ok to cheat, and only own up when the have been found out. Get real.

its not harsh its utter stupidity, we need people who will be open about doping, this action sends it underground again. This is about the rehabilitation of our sport, to do this we need the open experiences of people who have done it previously, in all walks of life past offenders are used to educate (alcoholics, prison etc.) this works we know it works, so we need past dopers to come out, look at the excellent work Miller has done.

This is Brailsford and nothing else, its about his reputation and that not being tarnished.

mikeprytherch wrote:

This is Brailsford and nothing else, its about his reputation and that not being tarnished.

I suspect that Sky might care a little about their reputation too. Do you not imagine that a zero tolerance approach might be written in to the sponsorship agreement somewhere?

Yates, Rogers and Sutton next.

Huw Watkins wrote:

mikeprytherch wrote:

This is Brailsford and nothing else, its about his reputation and that not being tarnished.

I suspect that Sky might care a little about their reputation too. Do you not imagine that a zero tolerance approach might be written in to the sponsorship agreement somewhere?

Yates, Rogers and Sutton next.

My view is that this is the price of keeping Sky on board. DB pitched them the concept of a clean team to bring them on in the first place (doesnt mean that I'm impressed with some of DB's hiring decisions - I think he's been naive at the very least)