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TECH NEWS
2021 Chris Froome - via Israel Start-Up NationIs Chris Froome still unhappy with his disc brakes? Four-time Tour de France winner switches out Shimano callipers for mountain stage
Chris Froome isn’t the convert to disc brakes that many pro riders are and he looks to have taken one more step in an attempt to stop the annoying rotor noise that can follow a long period of heavy braking.
Back in February, Froome said that he wasn't "100 per cent sold" on disc brakes despite having used them for a couple of months when talking to his YouTube followers about the Factor Ostro VAM that his Israel Start-Up Nation (ISUN) team uses. In the refreshingly honest review, Froome also said that while performance in both the wet and dry impressed him, he suggested that he had concerns over rubbing, overheating and the potential for rotors becoming warped.
On the horribly hard double Ventoux stage on Saturday, Froome was spotted using what we think is Magura’s MT8 SL FM. This two-piston flat-mount calliper is identifiable by the red ring seen on the body of the brake.
While we believe the calliper to be the MT8 SL FM - it’s the premium flat-mount in the Magura range - the lack of detail in the photo means that we can’t take a close enough look to confirm our suspicions.
The question really isn’t about what brake the ISUN mechanics have fitted, but why Froome wants it fitted. From what Froome has said about disc brakes in the past, we believe that the answer to that centres on heat dissipation and long descents.
When a rider such as Froome heads down a long descent, there are going to be numerous times where heavy braking is required due to the high speeds and twisting nature of the road. Hard braking can cause heat to build on the rotor and also within the brake calliper. In here, the heat can cause the pistons to expand slightly and this prevents the brake pads from returning to their ‘off’ position.
> What’s wrong with Chris Froome’s disc brakes?
This is when you will get the annoying noise as the brake pad is still slightly contacting the rotor. Dirt and brake dust can also be burnt onto the wall of the piston, further enhancing the issue.
So does the use of (what we think are) the Magura callipers solve this issue? We haven’t reviewed the MT8 SL FM, or used any other Magura callipers with Shimano road levers, so we can’t say either way; but with Froome being given the green light to use rim brakes should he wish, the set-up must be good enough to keep him on discs.
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33 comments
My guess is that he searching for excuses to like disc brakes.
After complaining about them publicly he now has "fixed" them, once Shimano releases the new ones he can pretend that they are also big change.
With this years Tour having most stages won on disc brakes and the total Tour probably too another of his arguments is gone.
But I can relate, I still prefer mechanical over electronic shifting and will shout at the internet once it isn't available any more.
I don't think a four time Tour winner needs disc brakes as an excuse for underperforming.
But cycling websites jump on the tiniest non-story because people get in a lather about something inconsequential such as Froome's choice of brakes.
Of course he can express disatisfaction but I really don't give a toss what brakes he prefers to use or what colour underpants he wears, I just want to see him get out of the grupetto.
On the topic of shifters, obsolescence is an eternal issue but I'd argue that mech shifting has a better future than some generations of electronic. With the eagerness of manufacturers to change specs, standards, compatibilty etc it's easy to envision that the blunt statement "Discontinued, no longer compatible" will happen with alarming frequency.
You only have to look at tablets and so-called 'cutting edge' smartphones from a few years ago to see the enormity of the problem - no parts, no serviceabity, fit only for the bin.
Pogacar was on rim brakes today (stage 17 - Col du Portet), as was the whole UAE team. UAE seem to be switching between discs and rims tactically (trying for marginal gains on dry mountain stages), something that's not an option for most of the other teams.
The tour will be won on rim brakes along with all of the stage wins the Pogacar has.
How does heat build up in a Dura Ace caliper make the piston expand? They are made of ceramic.
The heat build up in the caliper causing the brake pads to drag a little after hard applications is from a brake that has not been bled fully. It is tiny bubbles of air expanding with the heat causing the pistons to not retract fully. As the heat dissipates over the next few seconds the air bubbles contract again and the dragging pads retract fully, thus the 'tinkering' noise goes away. I've suffered this myself and a simple bleeding of the brakes removes the tiny bubbles and the problem is gone.
Another issue is not fully retracting the pads manually before bleeding the brakes. This can lead to them being too close to the rotor when in the 'off' position. In effect if you bleed them with them not fully retracted you have ended up with too much fluid in the system, which will prevent them being retracted fully.
The simple solution to that is to remove the bleed port screw on the lever and to have a clean rag to hand to catch the excess fluid that wells out as you manually force the pads apart to the fully retracted position.
With the brakes correctly bled and the caliper correctly aligned with a straight rotor there should be no reason to have a dragging disc brake. I am assuming the caliper is functioning correctly and not caked in dried brake dust and muck around the piston seals, which you would think should not be an issue for the likes of Chris Froome with pro mechanics on hand.
Word. I've just done my motorbike's pads and as long as you do what you're supposed to do then no dragging. As you say, shouldn't be a problem for a guy who has mechanics to do this stuff.
I'd say Froome is the problem. Disc brakes are good enough for all pro mountain bikers and most of the peloton. The number of crashes he has had suggests his bike handling skills aren't very good. Plus he only weighs about 9 stone, not as if his brakes are getting a workout.
Funny, I don't like discs either and keep getting told it's because 'I'm braking wrong' and they never get hot enough and therefore start squealing and squeaking. I'm 87kg with 140mm rotors!
It's lucky for the pros that they don't do lots of cold wet base miles in Scotland in winter or none of them would be using discs...
It's lucky for the pros that they don't do lots of cold wet base miles in Scotland in winter or none of them would be using discs
This comment goes against both sense and reality. I'm certainly doing lots of cold wet miles in North West England, often with a heavy trailer, and my cable TRP Spyres are the best development for decades.
No, it just goes against marketting and journalistic puff (and perhaps doesn't chime with your personal experience, which is fair enough).
Disc brakes can be a horrible solution for cold wet winter riding if you're not constantly plummetting down lakeland passes braking hard. My winter riding rarely requires hard prolonged stops so the brakes never heat up or dry off. Result: horribly squealing and frankly not even very good braking.
It's a design 'feature' of disc brakes that needs addressed, perhaps softer or siped pads or something that work well on a rotor covered in a film of water.
Discs are perfect for crap weather riding, keeping all the braking surfaces away from road gunk and preserving the rims. Why would all the MTBers be using them otherwise?
Try swapping out the pads and checking everything is aligned correctly if you are struggling with squealing, the organic resin pads supplied OEM with most brakes are a bit junk.
MTB's aren't regularly braking at 50-60 miles per hour over and over again. The rotors are very thin and warp easily at those speeds. And when they warp it comes on quick and can become dangerous. Froome complains about warping rotors. I see no reason to dismiss someone with his parmales just because of a personal bias for disc brakes.
I tried every tip and trick I could find on the internet to stop my road discs from squealing. Whatever you suggest I tried. They were so loud it was embarrassing. When I was at the point where I was considering selling the bike I decided, out of desperation, to just lightly sand the rotors. Just enough to scuff them up. That actually solved the problem and they've been quiet ever since. But after three years on discs I just prefer rim brakes.
I use them on my MTB because I need the extra power, the reduced arm/hand fatigue from braking hard whilst hanging on for dear life, and as you say, so I'm not replacing my rims after 1 years riding!
None of the above apply to my road bikes, or even my gravel bike for that matter. I went disc on the gravel bike only because it also serves as my CX bike where the rim wear argument also applies, but unfortunately CX riding in particular seems the worst sort of riding for disc brakes, very gentle, occasional feathering of brakes whilst coated in mud and water = squealing for the entire ride!
I'd sworn I was going to stop throwing money at the problem but I've now got some new pads to try (Uberbike Race Matrix but also experimenting with Swissstop RS on the MTB) and I've even got some automotive anti-squeal shims which I'm going to see if I can fit in behind the pads on my TRP Spyres. Worth a shot...
I'd say maybe think twice before dismissing the opinions of one of the greatest stage racers of all time. Mountain bikers have entirely different requirements to road racers, and many riders in the peleton prefer rim brakes but are forced to use discs by the manufacturers; INEOS/Sky have/had a big enough budget to dictate what they want to the manufacturers rather than vice-versa. I don't believe Froome is any more crash-prone than anyone else and, as the current Tour has amply demonstrated, whether you crash and what the outcome is often down to luck rather than bike-handling skills; if he's such a rotten bike handler, how has he managed to take time out of his rivals on descents on several memorable occasions, e.g. his famous Giro-winning break in 2018? Finally, saying that his brakes don't get a workout because of his weight is just plain ignorant, when he's descending at close to 100kph and braking at the last possible second his brakes are being subjected to greater strain than yours or mine ever will be, and the heat generated will often cause disc rub. By all means have whichever brake system you prefer, but to attempt to traduce Froome simply because he has a preference for one over the other is just silly.
Using what are basically the campy calipers with Dura Ace. Sneaky!
Maybe he was experiencing so much drag that it caused him to be almost 3 hours back on GC.
Anyone else irritated by the tautological "switches out"...?
Nope. For starters, it's not tautological. 'Switch' just means 'to change the state of' - it doesn't, in itself, tell us how the state was changed. He could have switched it round, or switched its position (though it probably wouldn't have worked as well then). He could have switched it off (again, probably not ideal). Or it could have been an entirely different 'switch' - he could have hit it with a cane, if he was really unhappy with it.
You could argue that the most likely interpretation could be inferred from the context, but that makes it redundant, not tautological.
In any case, though, 'switched out' is common idiom for 'swapped it for another'.
Not as irritated as I am by the noise from my Shimano 105 hydro brakes 😉 they do stop nicely though.
I think I've finally resolved my extra loud squealing brakes. I tried some ceramic brake pads from https://noahandtheo.co.uk/ and am very pleased with them, though I haven't tried them in the wet yet.
Hadn't heard of ceramic brake pads before! Interesting...
Me neither, which is why I was curious to try them. They don't come with the cooling fins that the Shimano ones use, but then neither did the Prime ones that I was using previously.
I came across the company on FleaBay so then looked for their website to order direct (not much difference in price though).
Massive news
.
Cyclingtips dot com had an article a couple of weeks ago. Froome has a Rotor caliper on front Durace rear. Obvs magura make rotor brakes.
Clearly he didn't like even those disc brakes, because he swapped the bike for a rim-brake one on stage 15 (you can see the bike change at 91.9 km).
Not that easy to find a matching caliper. Shimano uses mineral oil, which removes many DOT4 based brakes from of the equation. And then you need a caliper that responds well to the oil flow created by the levers.
hope rx4, espcially for the bloaters.
Shigura hybrid brakes are quite common in the mountain bike world. Both use mineral fluid, as do Tektro. I personally don't like the ice tech rotor on the back of my bike - find out glazes the pads worse than a "normal" rotor
Riding extra slow, so that heavy braking isn't needed?
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