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London cyclists at traffic lights (copyright Britishcycling.org_.uk).jpgPetition demanding cyclists be licensed, taxed & insured rewritten after catalogue of mistakes pointed out
A motorist who began a petition calling on cyclists to be licensed and insured and pay ‘Road Tax’ has rewritten the text of it after inaccuracies were pointed out to him including that the term hasn’t existed since the 1930s, as well as other errors.
Many also highlighted that even if cyclists were subject to Vehicle Excise Duty VED), they would be zero-rated just as the least polluting motor vehicles are, and would therefore have to pay nothing.
Posted by Owen McDermott to the website Change.org two months ago it is addressed to Prime Minister Theresa May and, for some reason, her predecessor, David Cameron, whom she replaced in July, and who is no longer a Member of Parliament.
The original title was “Cyclists to hold insurance and pay road tax to use public UK roads,” but those words in bold have since been removed and the text of the petition amended to delete any reference to “road tax.”
That, as cycling journalist and author Carlton Reid points out on his iPayRoadTax website, was abolished in 1937, since when road building and maintenance has been funded from general taxation.
While reforms due to take effect in 2017 of the VED regime that were announced last year by Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne are due to see money raised ring-fenced to be spend on roads, if subject to VED cyclists would still pay as much as the least polluting cars – nothing.
> Osborne announces VED reforms that will see money raised reserved for road improvements
The petition stood at 6,000 signatures at 11pm yesterday evening but now has more than 23,000, although some signed it because they wanted to point out the errors in it.
Indeed, the most popular comment – with more than 1,000 ‘likes’ at the time of writing – was made yesterday by Martin Golder, who wrote:
I am signing because I want to see this fail miserably. The creator of this petition has no clue about how the system works at all.
Road Tax does not exist! Nobody pays Road Tax. You pay an amount based on the emissions of your vehicle, so, go ahead and push you hilarious petition, as if it 'succeeded', cyclists would still be allowed to ride on the roads and also have to pay £0 in imaginary 'road tax'.
Curiously, the motivation behind the petition being launched is the road safety campaign launched by West Midlands Police in September when the force said that motorists not giving cyclists a safe passing distance – at least 1.5 metres – face prosecution, with a link on the petition’s page to an ITV report on the initiative.
> Close-pass footage has now been used to prosecute 78 drivers, say West Midlands police
It’s not just that reference to “road tax” that has been excised, either – some of the more inflammatory language that appeared in the petition when we first saw it yesterday has also been removed, such as a reference to cyclists and “their chosen 2 wheeled non mechanical death trap,” highlighted in a counter-petition posted yesterday.
McDermott’s petition is now focused on calling for cyclists to be required to have public liability insurance – many of course do, whether through membership of organisations such as British Cycling or Cycling UK, or via their household insurance – as well as calling for compulsory training, although research consistently shows that adult cyclists are more likely than the average population to hold a driving licence.
While the language of the petition has been watered down since yesterday, it’s still clear that McDermott believes cyclists shouldn’t be on the road in the first place. Here is the text as it stood at 5pm on Tuesday 15 November.
The public roads used by motor vehicles are becoming unsafe to use due to one particular community that feel they are eligible to cycle on public UK roads.
A recent video created by the West Midlands police has lead me to creating this petition:
[The petition has a link to this ITV report on Facebook]
Just like having to sit your theory and your practical test to obtain a driving license, Cyclists should have to do the same. What training have they had to use the road safely?
Insurance, if a cyclist throws him/herself into the back of a stationary motor vehicle... Who's to blame? Not the cyclist... The driver of the motor vehicle would have to pay their own excess to repair the damages.
Im not sure on the percentage of how many cyclists die every year due to cycling on the road but if you stick them back on the path in a cycle lane I'm sure a lot more people will survive.
Since the petition is hosted on the website Change.org, unlike ones posted to the UK Government and Parliament website there is no requirement on the Government to respond now it has passed 10,000 signatures, nor would it be considered for debate by the House of Commons Backbench Business Committee should it pass 100,000.
However, in response to a Parliamentary question in June this year, Transport Minister Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon was clear on where the Government stood on the issue of insurance.
“We have no plans to make insurance compulsory for cyclists,” he said. “We encourage all cyclists to take out some form of insurance. In fact, many cyclists do through membership of cycling organisations, such as Cycling UK.”
Last year, he responded to a question asking whether cyclists should have to undergo a test and be licenced by saying: “We consider that the costs of a formal testing and licensing system for cyclists would significantly outweigh the benefits cycling has to the country’s economy, health and environment … It is likely that a licensing system will discourage many existing and potential cyclists, leading to a dramatic fall in the numbers of people cycling.”
The minister added: Around 80 per cent of adult cyclists also hold driving licenses, meaning that the majority of cyclists on the road have already been tested on operating safely in different road and traffic conditions.
"Furthermore, the safety case for a testing/licensing system is not as strong as that for drivers since, by contrast with motorised vehicles, bicycles involved in collisions on the highway are highly unlikely to cause serious injury to other road users.”
Simon joined road.cc as news editor in 2009 and is now the site’s community editor, acting as a link between the team producing the content and our readers. A law and languages graduate, published translator and former retail analyst, he has reported on issues as diverse as cycling-related court cases, anti-doping investigations, the latest developments in the bike industry and the sport’s biggest races. Now back in London full-time after 15 years living in Oxford and Cambridge, he loves cycling along the Thames but misses having his former riding buddy, Elodie the miniature schnauzer, in the basket in front of him.
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47 comments
"While reforms due to take effect in 2017 of the VED regime that were announced last year by Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne are due to see money raised ring-fenced to be spend on roads, ..."
If tax money being raised is to be ring-fenced for particular purposes related to the activity that tax was collected from then I demand that ALCOHOL TAX BE RING-FENCED TO BUILD MORE PUBS!
Ring-fencing taxes for anything is usually a poor idea. Taxes have to pay for defence, education, politicians etc. etc. and ring-fencing it to build more roads that only encourage even more driving is another example of "Post-truth" bad public policy that only panders to whingers for politicans" short term election gain.
While this guy is clearly a nut job... it wouldn't do the cycling community any harm to undergo a cycling proficiency test. I did one when I was at school, as did many other cyclists out there... but sadly, there are still some selfish people out there giving cyclists a bad name by completely ignoring the highway code, pulling out into traffic, not giving any arm signals as to where they are going, and completely ignoring the differences between footpaths and bridleways.
If the community doesn't put its own house in order, then whackjobs like the guy in this article will end up doing it for us via parliament and law. I would sooner cyclists started addressing the problems than ignoring them and shouting down anyone who happens to point them out. Better to be the ones setting the agenda than allowing hostile others to do it for us.
What are you suggesting though. That a test become mandatory? How would a test stop reckless behaviour in any case. Does it stop drivers from driving dangerously? Of course not. There is no 'house to be put in order'.
The most important thing for cycling is a huge increase in uptake. Any barriers to that (well meaning or otherwise) is at odds with achieving that.
A point often missed by the whackjobs demanding compulsory registration, insurance and training for cyclists to stop all the evil pavement cyclists and RLJers.
Does compulsory insurance stop millions of motorists driving around without any? Does registration stop motorists RLJing? Does it stop traffic crimes being committed? Does compulsory training and licencing stop traffic crime? Does it stop unlicenced drivers? Does it stop punishment passes and tailgating and hit'n'running? Why not?
If the powers that be want to stop traffic crime then they need to start funding actual dedicated traffic police again. They need to be willing to hand out fixed penalty notices, no excuses, and be willing to prosecute through the courts.
It doesn't matter if the penalty for RLJ is being hung drawn and quartered and then your heirs are sold into slavery fixing potholes, when people know that the chance of being caught is practically zero then they'll do it. It's not lack of education, it's knowing that you can get away with it.
(sorry: that veered wildly off topic)
What "community" is that? Aside from riding bikes, what exactly does a 59 year old riding mostly offroad in rural Scotland have in common with a 25 year old London based commuter and Strava obsessive?
And just how well does testing allow motorists to "get their house in order"? Presumably most of the people I see using their phones, exceeding the speed limit, parking in idiotic places and so on have passed a test. Some of them probably have insurance and may even have paid VED. Doesn't stop them.
"House in order" "giving us a bad name"...All the classics!
It's unthought-through cliche bingo!
There is no "house" and there is no "us" and there is no "community" and that I use a bike gives me neither responsibility nor power to police everyone else who might do so., and if by some magic superpower you manage to get everyone who touches a bike to behave perfectly, it won't change anything of significance about car-centric attitudes.
I thought about creating a petition demanding that Owen McDermott re-take a driving test. I have a suspicion that his driving may be sub-standard and present a danger to others.
I'll happily support his petition, provided he'll support mandatory retesting for drivers every 5 years, and immediate licence suspension for any driver involved in a collision.
I'm tempted to set up a petition to have Owen McDermott sent on a ride-along with West Midlands Traffic Officers...
Go on, then. I'd sign it
I had a........debate....with some cretin on Facebook last night who had signed this petition (unknown to me but known to a friend. I couldn't resist).
It's incredible how these folks soon resort to name calling & a continued request to pay road tax once they've been presented with cold, hard evidence on the fact that said tax doesn't exist, cars kill more people than pedal cycles, more uninsured drivers on the road etc.
It's almost as if some right wing newspaper is telling them what to think...
Did you point out also that the trend over the last 40 years has been in falling death rates on the UK road network also? The UK road fatality rate hit its peak in the late 60s and early 70s.
Perhaps you missed comment number 3 on this story - it's not just anti-cyclists who are quick to name call; our lot can be just as bad.
Why don't we start by removing the 1 million uninsured drivers from our roads?
How invigorating to see cyclist-hating drivers getting hot under the collar once again about cyclists.
One of the few pleasures of commuting by bike is to assimilate telepathically the pent up frustration felt by this small minority of twerps as you breeze past them through the traffic congestion they themselves have caused.
Frustration which then transmutes into full blown convulsions when a cyclist commits a felony before their eyes such as RLJ'ing.
Good luck with the petition my friend. You will need it.
Last night as I cycled home (on a well lit road, with light on my bike and wearing a light coloured jacket) a pedestrian stopped, looked up and down the road, waited for a second or two then stepped out in front of me when I was about 6 feet away. Not sure how I avoided him. Therefore I am considering starting a petition to call for mandatory testing of pedestrians. Anyone who fails should not be allowed out of the house unaccompanied (at which times they must wear a large 'L' plate). They should also be made to wear helmets and hi-viz clothing.
he shares scarily common attitudes with a large proportion of the road users out there today.
Might start a petition that makes it mandatory for any driver to be able to demonstrate that they have been a regular cyclist on our roads before they can obtain a driving license..
In fact, we would be in a much safer position if you needed a cycling licence before you could get a motorbike license, and a motorbike license before you can get a car license...
Oh come on, it would be a good thing to introduce a compulsory cycling test.
Everyone who is capable of riding a bike would have to do it. That includes mr Owen of course.
logically will need a pedestrian test to be allowed to use the pavement too.
but I really like the idea that to get a licence to use the road you have to do a cycling test
Here's a couple:
Didn't the guy realise that the immediate flaw in his petition is in the very first sentance 'Public Roads' ?
And, anyone else spot the breakout of common sense in the MPs answers when asked about this? Glad I was sitting down for that.
There's now a counter-petition: https://www.change.org/p/theresa-may-mp-petition-to-block-owen-mcdermott...
and this one, brilliant!;
you expect us to believe you went to school?
maybe if all the cars that cant go anywhere due to other cars being in their way would line up tidily on the left close to the kerb to allow space for cyclists to overtake consistently on the right, weaving through traffic would be unnecessary.
Could you imagine the howls from motorists if the first rider on the club run was near the kerb, the second near the centre line the third in the middle of the lane etc etc.
I'm all for a road tax as long as it's directly proportional between bikes and motor vehicles. It Could be based on weight or engine size, £100 for a bike would make It a few thousand pounds for your average car, if it prices the mouth breaths off the roads then brilliant.
When you have Toyota Prius being used as taxis, attracting £0 car tax. A 2 tonne metal box being driven around the roads for in the region of 40 hours per week.
Then a 10kg bicycle being used on the roads for up to 10 hours per week would probably be due for some form of subsidy.
In the interests of fairness of course.
Personally i think they might as well do away with all vehicle tax, and simply increase fuel duty to make this revenue neutral. Those that drive the most and pollute the most should pay the most. Save all the admin associated with vehicle tax, now there is no disc, which was useful in that you could visually see which cars were taxed (and therefore had insurance, or at least had at the time when they were taxed) there seems little need in collecting it.
Or you could apply some form of prohibitive first registration fee as they do in Singapore and Hong Kong to limit numbers of vehicles on the road. The number of cars seems to be increasing at a unsustainable rate, to the point that all pavements and verges are becoming parking areas because there is no longer enough space for parking cars.
Obviously someone just doing a Trump. Seems very popular these days.
Happy to have 'Road Tax' and insurance but I can tell you this I am 100% riding down the middle of the carriageway if I am paying my share of 'Tax' to use the road.
Owen McDermott can Fuck. Right. Off.
I bet he drives a knackered old van that's more rust than metal, and drinks crap lager. Alone.
Probably submitted the petition on their phone whilst sat in the queue driving to work.
Depending on who's statistics you believe, somewhere between 10% and 20% of all drivers in the UK are uninsured.
Given the massively greater harm they cause compared to cyclists, maybe we should have a petition to enforce existing laws against them.
Cyclists make the road unsafe?? Yeah, nevermind all the fuckwit drivers constantly on their phone, a massive percentage of drivers these days. What a thick cunt.
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